Filtering Messages that Fuel Dissatisfaction
16 October 2007, 11:00 AM MDT
Read more about Gail Houston
Read more about Kate Krause
Transcript
susan:
Who are your female role models in terms of living well but responsibly?
What are the best resources -- magazines or web sites, for example -- for learning to live well and send the right message to big business and to our daughters that more stuff isn't going to make us happier.
What are the best resources -- magazines or web sites, for example -- for learning to live well and send the right message to big business and to our daughters that more stuff isn't going to make us happier.
Kate Krause:
Susan, I am especially interested in your reference to making sure our daughters get the right message. Of course any magazine or other commercial enterprise needs revenue in order to operate, so most accept advertisements from cosmetics companies, fashion outlets, that sort of thing. My daughters read those magazines. But I think there are also lots more examples of people living "green" or giving back in the form of AIDS activism, poverty relief, etc than had been true a decade ago.
Peggy:
Who is this event for? Married women who don't have to work? I am disquieted by the fact that I MUST work and do not the leisure time to participate in things like this forum! I worry about my health, my financial future, and whether I will be able to live decently if my husband dies before me. I have no children to help me out when I become more needy. These are very heavy worries for someone about to retire from teaching.
Gail Houston:
Peggy, I'm so glad yours is the first question. This is something of great concern to me because most women in the world do not have the luxury to ask themselves if they are happy. I'd say probably 75% of women in the world have to work, so it really annoys me sometimes when we act as though working is a choice. Staying home and raising kids is also work that is unpaid in our country. At any rate, Marx noted that we have the value system we can afford; in other words, if we do not have the money to have happiness, we won't be asking questions like, how can I be happy? We'll be asking, what do I have to do to get some food on the table today. I'm increasingly concerned that more and more people in the US cannot afford to think about the "pursuit of happiness" because they are so worried about finances. When middle-class folks like you are deeply worried about it, I think that indicates a real problem.
Carolyn Flynn:
Peggy's question raises an interesting issue, I think, about the disquiet BETWEEN women. "Married women who don't have work" are perceived as having the ideal set of circumstances. How have the media created that disquiet by idealizing it? Is that statement really true? Are married women happier?
Gail Houston:
Actually one study shows that married women are the least happy. The order goes: married men (happiest), single women (next happiest, I believe), single men (next happiest), and married women (least happy). The reasons given are that married women do all the child rearing and housework AND have a job outside the home and they're exhausted all the time. So the romantic view of marriage ends up not being all its cracked up to be, whereas the married man gets a wife to do all this stuff and contentment as well. This is very exaggerated but for some women it's not far from the truth.
Kate Krause:
Well certainly the official data say that married people report higher levels of happiness, but you have to take that with a grain of salt.
I thought Peggy's main point was along the lines of.. it's a luxury to have the time to mull over this idea of what makes us content - most of us are so busy doing what we need to do to earn a living, stay healthy, etc. that it seems pretty indulgent to spend time on wanting a higher level of contentment. I hope I am not mis-stating her concern.
I thought Peggy's main point was along the lines of.. it's a luxury to have the time to mull over this idea of what makes us content - most of us are so busy doing what we need to do to earn a living, stay healthy, etc. that it seems pretty indulgent to spend time on wanting a higher level of contentment. I hope I am not mis-stating her concern.
Carolyn Flynn:
I think you're right that Peggy's central question was about whether pursuing a higher level of contentment is a luxury, but it's interesting that we perceive that "married women who don't work" might already have that as a given. But well, is it indulgent to see personal improvement? Does it fuel dissatisfaction to be looking outside yourself, as perhaps Hugh is suggesting?
Kate Krause:
I guess I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't be somewhat self-conscious and seek better ways, but at some point you just have to do what you have to do. Maybe it's a generational thing. Many in my boomer generation think we should be fulfilled - and that's great. But a generation earlier would have thought that was pretty self-absorbed.
One of the things Susan and I talked about for this article was the way satisfaction can be relative: if I compare my situation to that of someone who is better off than I am, I might feel a little dissatisfied; if I compare myself to someone who is worse off I might reach the opposite conclusion = so looking outside yourself can cut both ways.
One of the things Susan and I talked about for this article was the way satisfaction can be relative: if I compare my situation to that of someone who is better off than I am, I might feel a little dissatisfied; if I compare myself to someone who is worse off I might reach the opposite conclusion = so looking outside yourself can cut both ways.
Hugh Soule':
Wouldn't you say that even though you have obtain success, that the gaps in ones life will on be amplified unless you have come to grips with your own short comings prior to success. So no matter what support you may have or have not, you must have your inner self in balance or all the support in the world will not help would you not say? And wouldn't you say that dealing with the internal struggle with oneself is a paramount issue in dealing with any disquiet within your soul?
Kate Krause:
I thought Hugh's point was in distinguishing between external markings of success and support gained from others - as opposed to internal balance. Ultimately external measures and sources of contentment might be vulnerable to being taken away or lost - but your own personal source of strength is yours no matter what.
Gail Houston:
Life is a cycle whether we want it to be or not (happiness, sadness, bereavement, numbness, etc.; an article I read in the LA Times yesterday notes that as we get older we become happier because we are aware of the cycles and have been through them and we have skills to deal with them. The article noted that people who have good relationships with others, are doing new things, and who feel useful (helping others) are the happiest.
Lisa:
I am considering paying roughly $1,800 for a weeklong writers workshop. The hope with participants is they'll be discovered, get an agent, etc. I'm wondering if people ever benefit from these or are they just ways for organizers to cash in on insecurities?
Kate Krause:
Boy, that's a good question. Does the workshop publish results from prior attendees? Do you know of anyone who has gone through the program? It's hard to assess these things before hand.
Gail Houston:
Find out as much as you can about this workshop and its legitimacy.
I'd venture to guess that only 1 or 2 people who take the workshop will be discovered and that the organizers know this.
That doesn't necessarily negate the good advice you might get on how to rewrite. If you go in clear-eyed knowing these things and say to yourself I'm really going to enjoy this and get the most out of it then it's okay.
I'd venture to guess that only 1 or 2 people who take the workshop will be discovered and that the organizers know this.
That doesn't necessarily negate the good advice you might get on how to rewrite. If you go in clear-eyed knowing these things and say to yourself I'm really going to enjoy this and get the most out of it then it's okay.
marybeth brennan:
In the American society today, if we help young women plan for a future where they must be ready for diversity and change, I believe that women have much more options for happiness than do our young men. They have choices that do not necessarily involve the paycheck. And if they have planned, studied, trained to deal with questions of survival they can be ready for questions of the pursuit of happiness and of opting in and out of the work force for questions of child rearing, following their man to new horizons, or of following their muse. But we must train our young--and for a future of a global society. Don't you think a large part of the concern is that we have a re-evaaluation on how we are dealing with males?
Kate Krause:
I think that one of the issues that you allude to is that women may at least believe that they can choose to not work for a living but maybe young men do not perceive that they have that option.
But I am not sure that that is true anymore. Women really must be able to financially support themselves.
And it isn't really fair that men may not perceive that they have the same options that women might.
We are seeing now, on college campuses, significantly more women than men, and women are graduating at higher rates as well. And going on to professional and graduate schools. So I wonder what is happening to young men.
But I am not sure that that is true anymore. Women really must be able to financially support themselves.
And it isn't really fair that men may not perceive that they have the same options that women might.
We are seeing now, on college campuses, significantly more women than men, and women are graduating at higher rates as well. And going on to professional and graduate schools. So I wonder what is happening to young men.
Gail Houston:
I'm thrilled that our daughters have so many more options; I'm depressed that they're still dealing with a lot of the prejudice against women I grew up with; for goodness sake, Hillary Clinton was asked, "Won't a lot of the world leaders from conservative countries not meet with you because you're a woman.?"
I hope when we say we must train young people, we mean every one, from all classes; that means making schools and grants available to all children and ensuring that they all get a strong foundation of learning in elementary and high school. Education is hugely important.
I hope when we say we must train young people, we mean every one, from all classes; that means making schools and grants available to all children and ensuring that they all get a strong foundation of learning in elementary and high school. Education is hugely important.
susan:
Who are your female role models in terms of living well but responsibly?
What are the best resources -- magazines or web sites, for example -- for learning to live well and send the right message to big business and to our daughters that more stuff isn't going to make us happier.
What are the best resources -- magazines or web sites, for example -- for learning to live well and send the right message to big business and to our daughters that more stuff isn't going to make us happier.
Kate Krause:
I didn't really answer your question. Sorry. I think there are people in the media - maybe not Al Gore with all his flying around and big house, but he's one - who really emphasize a greener lifestyle.
I can only look more locally for female role models who live responsibly. I bike commute because many women I know do. My daughters see me doing that; I hope at some level it sinks in.
I think it is hard to look to the media for examples of simple living because if you are in the media you are, almost by definition, not living simply.
On second thought, maybe the media is possibly inadvertently showing our daughters how silly being a materialistic party girl is - I don't think anyone is looking at Paris Hilton's jail spell or Britney Spears highjinx and saying I want to be like her!
I can only look more locally for female role models who live responsibly. I bike commute because many women I know do. My daughters see me doing that; I hope at some level it sinks in.
I think it is hard to look to the media for examples of simple living because if you are in the media you are, almost by definition, not living simply.
On second thought, maybe the media is possibly inadvertently showing our daughters how silly being a materialistic party girl is - I don't think anyone is looking at Paris Hilton's jail spell or Britney Spears highjinx and saying I want to be like her!
Gail Houston:
I just don't look to magazines for enlightenment; as a feminist I find great wisdom in feminist theory and in watching how my feminist colleagues live their everyday lives with such valor. I learn from them how to live with courage and joy. I also am astonished by my 2 daughters and how they face life; I learn from them all the time.
In regards to Kate's comments about young men; I've always told students that every person (unless they cannot for mental or physical health reasons) should be prepared and able and expect to work for a living and get paid. It's what adults do, and women should too! We are living in very fluid times and when women are asking questions about work, happiness, family, life style, gender, men will also be affected. I believe that the harshly capitalist system we live in in the US is not conducive to happiness for men or women. It's really hard to have family values and be with your family when you're worried all the time about finances. I don't want men to just be automatons who feel all they do in life is go to work and make money--that's not conducive to their health or happiness.
In regards to Kate's comments about young men; I've always told students that every person (unless they cannot for mental or physical health reasons) should be prepared and able and expect to work for a living and get paid. It's what adults do, and women should too! We are living in very fluid times and when women are asking questions about work, happiness, family, life style, gender, men will also be affected. I believe that the harshly capitalist system we live in in the US is not conducive to happiness for men or women. It's really hard to have family values and be with your family when you're worried all the time about finances. I don't want men to just be automatons who feel all they do in life is go to work and make money--that's not conducive to their health or happiness.
Rheanni:
When I lived in Los Angeles, workshops that promised to get you discovered were all over the place.
Every once in a while, people do get discovered, find an agent, etc. However, mostly its just hype. I think that now that NM has more and more movie projects you are going to see a lot more of this kind of advertising. Playing on people's hopes.
What I would ask is, are there processes in this workshop that will nurture you as a writer? If so, would you pay that amount of money for that kind of nurturing?
Every once in a while, people do get discovered, find an agent, etc. However, mostly its just hype. I think that now that NM has more and more movie projects you are going to see a lot more of this kind of advertising. Playing on people's hopes.
What I would ask is, are there processes in this workshop that will nurture you as a writer? If so, would you pay that amount of money for that kind of nurturing?
Gail Houston:
I think this is right on the money, Rheanni!
Carolyn Flynn:
Hugh raises an interesting question, too, about the internal struggle. Are there cycles of disquiet and contentment? Does disquiet lead to personal change?
Gail Houston:
To me part of happiness is to be able to go through the cycles and appreciate what they teach us: bereavement teaches us how precious our loved ones are; sadness teaches us to pay attention to other's feelings too. Each part of the cycle has some wisdom in it we can learn.